EP #103: Concrete & the Rise of Blended Cements

Seth (00:01.275)
Welcome to another episode of the concrete logic podcast. And today I have Tyler lay, YouTube. I don't know star and he was on a CBS, Sunday morning, man. How cool is that? Yeah. Yeah. but anyhow, before we get going, I just want to remind everybody how you can support the podcasters three ways. One.

Tyler Ley (00:17.813)
Thanks, brother. Thanks, Seth. Thanks for having me the show,

Seth (00:29.555)
is to go to ConcreteLogicPodcast .com. And if you got some out of today's episode, please share it with a coworker or colleague. But when you're on that homepage, you'll see we're well over 100 episodes now. So you can go in there, pick an episode, share it. And then the second thing you can do is if you are on that same homepage,

There's a couple of ways to get a hold of me. There's a contact button in the upper right hand corner. says contact click on that. That's like shoot me an email on the bottom right hand corner of the same homepage. There is a little microphone. If you click on that microphone, it's like sending me a voicemail. And what I'm looking for are topic or guest suggestions. And that's why Tyler's here is here today. Cause the listener was like, Hey, could you get Tyler back on and talk about.

we're going to talk about type one L submit. So that's how it works. You tell me what you want to hear, who you want to hear from, and I will chase them down. I chase them down like nobody's business, right Tyler? Yeah. and then the third way you can support the show is if you get some kind of value out of this, any value at all, you can click on the donate button on the homepage and,

Tyler Ley (01:35.852)
You're awesome stuff. You're persistent and consistent. I love it, man.

Seth (01:51.451)
You can give any amount, any, any dollar amount is appreciated. And, yeah, that's how it works. That's how you can support the show. So with that, Tyler, let's get into the topic to today. We were going to talk about type one L cement. we're going to talk a little bit about the future of it. but yet, like I said, someone wanted to hear your thoughts on type one L submit.

Tyler Ley (02:17.486)
Well, let's see. So type 1L cement is here to stay. It's something that's going to be in our industry for the foreseeable future. And it's going to keep changing and hopefully keep getting better, but it's going to keep changing. And people are going to be blending in things besides just limestone. They'll be blending in like fly ash and slag and other things like that. And they'll be selling it to you in an all -in -one product called a blended cement.

pretty commonly used in Europe, but even in like Nebraska and in Iowa in certain parts, they've used blended cements for a long time. And I'll be honest with you, in the state of Oklahoma, we've had limestone cement for more than 10 years now, about 12 years where I'm at. And when we started, the only thing we used limestone cement for was for stabilized base. That's the only thing we used it for.

because we got all the kinks worked out and the bugs worked out. Dobber Bingaman was with Wholesome Cement, he was one of the pioneers of making that work in this state. so that is something that served as well in this state to kind of get over some of the bumps and some of the problems. But we use 1L a lot and my entire lab is made out of 1L cement. I've got polished concrete floors.

you can do amazing things with what type 1L cement, but I know what everyone's saying out there because not all 1L cements are the same. Not all 1L cements are created equal. And there's always a hiccup or some challenges as people start to go through and adopt and do anything new. Have you seen that, Seth? Have you had any challenges?

Seth (04:05.531)
Yeah, I mean, it depends. I talked to as many people as I can. And again, it depends on where they are in the country. I also think it has a lot to do with how we cure our concrete as well. So folks that are lazy with curing probably have more problems than ones that are good at curing concrete. But yeah, I've

really was paying attention, obviously, in the last couple of years that we're seeing in the specifications. Someone told me, it's like, always been in the spec. Blended cement's always been in the specifications. And then I finally start paying attention that they have ASTMC 595 listed versus was the normal ASTMC 150 that you see for type 1 -2. So I started paying attention to that now every time I'd

I'm starting to look at a new job or potential job is make sure that they're listed in there.

Tyler Ley (05:05.838)
Yeah. So I think, C five 95 specs or C five 95, cements. mean, when I, when I, when I talked to the cement companies, that's what a lot of them are talking about. Now I don't know what time that that's on, but the idea is that they're going to provide a more of a packaged product that would, be greener, be, you know, hopefully perform better as well.

And so like an all in one thing. I think that's where they're headed. And again, I don't know what the timeline is, but I think that's where they're headed. But I'll tell you, Seth, what I think our industry needs to do is I think our industry needs to learn from what our experience with type 1L CEMENT. And I think we need to realize that it's...

probably not likely that things are gonna be a one for one switch. Have you seen that before, Seth, that you kinda gotta really check and make sure that if I'm using a new cement or I'm using a new ad mixture that I kinda need to see how that impacts everything? Have you noticed that?

Seth (06:03.791)
Yeah. I mean, I think we just, again, we just learned it because of our mistakes, but I think the, when, at least in our area, the type one L when they made the switch that it was, we were told it was a one for one and then it was used as one from one. And then we found out that it wasn't a one for one, but, yeah, that's, we, and we talked about that.

a bunch of times on the podcast that, yeah.

Tyler Ley (06:35.416)
Yeah. And just to summarize, know, they might have, when they go to make these 1L cements, there's a lot of different properties that they can try to match. Like, do you try to match workability? Do you try to match strength? Do you try to match bleed rate? Do you try to match setting time? Right? Do you try to match something else that we didn't name? All right.

I mean, there's all kinds of things that do you try to match and there's too many things to get perfect. I hope that makes sense what I'm saying. Like it's likely that people often try to, they either need to pick workability, set time or strength, right? And you got to pick one of them. And if you get one of them right, then you might, you're probably going to be off on the other two. I hope that makes sense what I'm saying.

Seth (07:25.467)
Yeah, no, that's an excellent point. I never thought of it that way. Cause we, I mean, as con concrete contractors, we focus on mostly set time and work workability also. But so you're saying you're not going to get all three.

Tyler Ley (07:40.812)
Well, never say never, right? I never, ever want to say we've got some wizards in our industry and they can do some amazing things. But imagine if you're ever trying to match one of something like life is all about teeter totters, right? It's all about if I push so hard for one thing, I might not get something else. So if I'm going to grind my cement in such a way to try to make my workability be about the same.

Seth (07:42.992)
Right?

Tyler Ley (08:07.584)
then I might not get the same set time and I'm probably not gonna get the same strength gain because I mean, let's be honest, we're putting gristle in the meat, right? That's what limestone is, right? It's gristle in the meat and some gristle makes your meat taste a little bit better if you made hamburgers before, right? But too much of it makes it not so good, right? And so,

Finding that balance is what I think everybody's trying to do. And I think we're going to learn a lot in the future. We've known, for example, that aggregate gradation, like the rock and the sand gradation, is really important for the workability of our concrete. You know what I'm talking about, Seth? I think there's something similar on the powder. I think there's a particle size distributions on the powder size.

that makes it flow better, makes it work better, makes it set more reliably, all right? But we don't know those yet. I hope that makes sense what I'm saying. Like, we're literally dealing with unknowns here.

Seth (09:08.701)
So you're saying.

Yeah, so maybe less grinding when you're making submit.

Tyler Ley (09:14.828)
Well, I think it's all about particle size distribution. And I think that's where it gets complicated. It depends on the limestone you're using. right. Some are so limestone is like dog. Like how many dogs are there out there, Seth? Like how many different types? There's like hundreds of different types of dogs, right? Limestone is the same thing. Limestone is a general geologic term where there's all kinds of different morphologies, different chemistries.

Seth (09:29.5)
Right.

Tyler Ley (09:42.392)
different whatever's that fall into limestone, just like there's all kinds of different four -legged animals out there that we call dogs. And so the thing is gonna be is that every single cement plant is gonna be a little bit different depending on what limestone source they're using, on how hard their clinker is, what their grinding medium is, how long they grind.

What other additives they're using, grinding aids or what they're called. I mean, did you know that we have admixtures for cement? Did you know that, Seth? They're called grinding aids.

Seth (10:18.097)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've had a podcast about that. Yeah.

Tyler Ley (10:22.006)
What? That's awesome. Well, grinding aids are really cool, but they're one of the unspoken things of our industry. Okay. Because people change their grinding aids all the time. And I'm not saying that they're something evil. I think they're another amazing tool to help us get great stuff. My point with all this, Seth, is that this is not easy. This is not easy.

It's not as easy just to go find some limestone and grind it up with my clinker and it's going to be great at the end. There's some engineering and some science that goes into actually dialing that in. And I'll be honest with you, I don't think, just my opinion, is just Tyler Lay speaking here, I don't think as an industry we'd have it all figured out yet. So I think there's a bunch of opportunity in the future.

Seth (11:07.825)
No way.

Tyler Ley (11:14.222)
And I think when people start to go to blended cements, like adding fly ash and slag and things like that, that's something that we're gonna need to step up to and understand at an even higher level, all this powder stuff in a lot more detail. mean, yeah, but is it okay if I talk about some possible solutions, Seth? Because I don't wanna leave everyone thinking that it's destitute and we're never gonna figure this out. Are you okay with that?

Seth (11:14.941)
Yeah.

Seth (11:40.443)
Yeah. Before you get in that, can I ask you a quick question? asked, I asked somebody else's question. so that you were talking about each individual, submit supplier will be unique in what they bring to the producer. Correct. I'm hearing you. All right. And then there's variability and even in what they have or what they manufacture. Correct. Yeah. So how do you determine.

Tyler Ley (11:43.138)
Of course.

Tyler Ley (11:56.066)
Yes, sir.

Tyler Ley (12:04.428)
Yes, sir. That's right.

Seth (12:08.283)
What is a good way to determine what they bring to you is the same as the last load they sent to you? Or are you going to have to check that each time they bring you a load to submit?

Tyler Ley (12:20.034)
Good question. we're never, mean, everyone's going to get stuff dialed in. Okay. Like, like I think we need to agree that in the future, people are going to iterate and they're going to get this figured out. But let's talk about tools that you could use to help protect yourself. You, you, you down with me for that. Right. So the simplest tool, the best tool, like literally this is a game changer tool for you out there. If you're dealing with one else cement problems.

Seth (12:36.509)
Yeah, that's what I was looking for.

Tyler Ley (12:47.806)
or if you're worried about workability in general, mean, in general, this is an amazing tool. It's called the float test. And I've got several videos where I've kind of talked about it. I'm gonna make one coming up where it's only about the float test. Brother, it's simple. It's plywood, right? And it's two by fours, right? It's a three foot by three foot, I'm sorry, three foot by two foot box that is three inches deep.

that you fill with concrete. Fill with concrete, you don't consolidate the concrete. You just dump it in, you strike it off. You're with me so far, Seth. Then you use a float, you trim the float so it only rides on the concrete. It doesn't ride on the forms. That's really important. Now we have a yoke in the back. That's a little angle thing to hold it at a fixed angle and we move it forward at a fixed speed and we move it back at a fixed speed, right? And we measure, well, and then what we do is we measure two different things. That's something I left out, Seth.

Seth (13:24.465)
Yeah.

Tyler Ley (13:47.82)
we actually make three holes in the surface. Now, why do we do that? Well, we wanna simulate aggregate pluck outs in the surface because it's the finisher's job to finish in and close up any of those holes on the surface. So we create three one inch diameter, one inch deep holes, and then we do the float back and forth and we have two measurements that come out. One is how many passes, forward is one, back is two, to close up the holes, and number two,

How many passes does it take to create a smooth surface? And we use visual ranking. We just kind of have some pictures and we look at it and we say, is it looking good? Is it looking good? And a mix that requires more passes, it's not so good, brother. It's not so good. Because if it requires a lot of passes, they get the holy water out. You know what I'm talking about, right? The holy water, right? And they bless the surface and we don't want that. That causes spalling. That causes...

Seth (14:38.087)
Yep.

Tyler Ley (14:44.162)
That causes finishing issues, that causes higher water -to -cement ratio at the surface. We don't want that. Now, so we want to design our mixes to have the lowest amount of pass as possible. You with me? And there are cement companies right now that are using this approach to kind of evaluate their cements, okay? And you should start doing it as a user.

Seth (14:58.482)
Yeah.

Tyler Ley (15:13.89)
Right? Like ever so often doesn't mean you have to do it every day, but ever so often, especially when you think there's a change, get the float test out, run the float on top of it, see how many passes it takes. You can do it in the field, you can do it in the lab, you can do it at the site, you can do it wherever you want. It's just a way to get some data, some information. Okay? Because if we don't start measuring it,

We're never gonna get changed. When I talk to people in the cemented street and I am not throwing shade on them when I say this, but a lot of them they say, I hear different things from different people. Some people are having problems and some people aren't. That's what they tell me sometimes. And if we could give them data to say, listen, I ran the float test, same mix, same everything, I ran the float test and it's changing. That's data.

that's much, much, much, much better data than if we just say, it's harder to finish today. You know I'm saying? Because you and I both know there's a million things that could be a reason why it's harder to finish today.

Seth (16:17.82)
Yeah.

Seth (16:23.367)
Yep, that's true.

Tyler Ley (16:25.782)
Any questions on the float stuff or finishing? What are your thoughts? You think, you think, is it, am I full of it? What do you think?

Seth (16:32.727)
no, I mean, I think that's a unique way. was thinking more of how do you drill down, to the submit based on the float test? Cause I saw you, I saw, like I mentioned before we hit record your, your, your fiber, YouTube, was telling the same use the same test to test your fibers as well. So I was, I was hoping you'd give me something where I could, I could take

Tyler Ley (16:54.178)
Yes, sir.

Seth (16:59.46)
sample out of the cement that was delivered, the powder itself, and test that powder itself so I could drill in and see if that powder is what they say it is.

Tyler Ley (17:08.364)
Well, something that I'm working on right now is tools to do that, right? Something that I'm looking for industry support right now, and honestly, because this is not something that a lot of my traditional funding agencies like DOTs or like the federal government are that interested in actually funding. And, but I think, and so I'm talking to people right now, so there's...

Seth (17:12.818)
Okay.

Tyler Ley (17:31.342)
There's tools that you can use that are expensive, but I'm trying to develop some simple tools that people could use to evaluate if what they're telling you is the right thing or not, you know, and just to kind of get some verification. But I'll tell you that there is, I think the flow test is valuable because it tests my whole everything together, right? But I do think I agree with you on.

Seth (17:53.853)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Tyler Ley (17:57.078)
on the powder itself. But now, let's talk about set. Is that okay with you? Talk about set for a second. So when it comes to set time, there are some definite tools that you can use with the powder. There's things called calorimeters, right? And calorimeters measure the amount of heat that's given off. And there's two flavors. There's the expensive kind, and then there's the not so expensive kind. There's something called the isothermal calorimeter. What? That's the expensive kind.

Seth (18:02.108)
Of course. Yeah.

Tyler Ley (18:26.22)
And then there's the adiabatic calorimeter. All that matters is one's expensive and one's not. One, you want to it just with cement paste. Okay? And then the other one, you can run it with a concrete mix. Right? So I have both of them in my lab. They are awesome. And they are really powerful tools because they give you this heat curve. Now what's going to happen is if your set time is changing, the heat curve is going to change. You're with me.

Seth (18:55.91)
Yeah.

Tyler Ley (18:56.13)
Okay. So what's powerful is to use whatever admixtures you're thinking about, whatever SCMs you're thinking about in your mix, get a heat curve and then just compare that heat curve over time. what I'm telling you now might sound, some people in your audience might sound like it's too hard or it's too crazy or it's too nuts, but I think this is going to be more commonplace, my friend. I think making these measurements ourselves with

our materials are gonna make more sense. And it's kinda like a cook, right? When a cook, they may buy sugar or something, but they're still gonna mix up a batter and they're still gonna taste it. They all taste it. They all see if it meets their own standards and quality. And if it doesn't, they tweak it until it does. We're gonna be more like the cooks coming up. We've had many, many years where everything was the same. It was the same.

I could use the same mix again and again and again and again and again. But I'll tell ya, consistency is gonna become a much, much bigger deal to all of us. All of us. Consistent concrete, consistent performance out there, consistent product out there, and the only way we're gonna get there, I believe, is taking more measurements. Now I don't mean crazy measurements, I don't mean hard measurements, I don't mean.

I've got to buy a whole lab in my, you know, whatever. I'm not saying that. We're going to come up with simple, easy ways to taxi things just like the cook tasting the batter. Okay. And you probably have them now. You look at them, you see them, you run a trial over them, you finish them, right? And I get that. Those are all powerful, but they're going to be more, they're going to be easier to use. They're going to be easier to implement and they're going to become common language like slumps. Slumps amazing.

because it's simple and it's easy. People love to bag on it, but it's simple and it's easy and it's inexpensive. And we're gonna develop more tools like that for all of us to use in what we do. So we have a common language. We already have slump, slumps three, slumps five. Everyone knows what that means. Just like when you order a steak, medium rare, everyone knows what that means.

Seth (20:56.337)
Mm

Tyler Ley (21:17.672)
Same thing is gonna happen. It's just we're gonna need different tools. It's not gonna be the same as just slump, okay? There's gonna be more to the story, more things that we have to measure. Makes sense what I'm saying? That's the future, my friend. Because that's what we're gonna have to do to take control over all the things that are thrown at us going into the future.

Seth (21:29.383)
Yes.

Yeah.

Tyler Ley (21:45.932)
And for those that are willing to step up and do it, you're gonna see better concrete than you've ever seen before. You're gonna see more rewards than you've ever seen before, all right? But for those that don't, if you've had problems with 1L cement, get ready. Get ready. The future's gonna be even more challenging. Don't you agree?

Seth (22:08.955)
And what does that? Yeah. What does that look like?

Tyler Ley (22:12.14)
Well, what does it look like? Well, it can look like if you don't, if you're not really watching things and how things change, it could be really insane inconsistency from mix to mix to mix to mix to mix. Okay. From load to load to load to load to load. Because if there's a lot of different variables or a lot of different things out there that can be impacting why that concrete's doing what it's doing. And if you don't have a handle on some of them,

you're never gonna know what's going on. It's gonna be like a random number generator. It's gonna be like rolling the dice every day. What are we getting today? And if you're already living there, don't you wanna get out of that? I would wanna get out of that. I mean, when I was a contractor, we did everything we could to make our mud as consistent as possible. Everything we could. One thing that's simple, man, simple, simple, simple.

Seth (22:54.663)
Yeah.

Tyler Ley (23:07.916)
And I used to teach about it at the World of Concrete, I cover other stuff now. It's called the bag test. You ever heard of the bag test, Seth? You're gonna love the bag test, brother. All you need are some Walmart bags, right? Or if you don't have Walmart, buy whatever plastic bag you want. And you're gonna need some big old, like those big old insulated cups. You know what I mean? The bigger, you can buy everything at a quick trip, all right?

Seth (23:15.889)
No. Yeah.

Tyler Ley (23:34.882)
And so when that, when your concrete shows up for the day, what we used to do is we would take two bags of it, right? I would take one bag and throw it in the back of my truck on a plywood board. Okay. And then I had the other bag that I would put in my cab that I put in one of those insulated cups and I put the lid on it. You with me so far, Seth? And what I would do is, is that way I could be anywhere on the job and my foreman could call me on the radio and talk about the mud.

Seth (23:54.098)
Yeah.

Tyler Ley (24:03.276)
Because the one in the back is in the same environment, same, it's driving around in my truck, but it's in the same environment as everything else on the job. You're with me. And we can, I can get out of my truck and I can poke it and I can look at the bleed, I can look at what's going on, I can look at the cream, I can look at all kinds of different stuff that's going on with that concrete. And the thing that's inside my truck, that's inside that cup with the lid on it, right? That's one that's insulated from the environment.

So I can do the same thing, I can poke it. So I can say, is the temperature impacting from the stuff in the cup versus stuff in the back? What's going on day to day? What's happening? And when you start to do that again and again and again, and all I'm doing, my friend, is taking simple measurements, simple observations, that then I have a common language with other people on my job on how we talk about it. And I bet if you think about it, you do that right now.

I bet you do it all right now. I'm just saying we're gonna need more of that, a lot more of that going ahead. Simple stuff that ties into what's gonna matter. And as we get into this blended cements or higher volumes of limestone, we're only at about 12%, most of the places in the United States are only about 12 % limestone replacement. When we go up to 15 % or people are talking about going up to 20 % limestone replacement, all of this is gonna become even more important for us to just keep.

keep our finger on the pulse of what's going on. It's just like that cook taking a taste of the batter. They have to check in and see is it too salty? Is it too sweet? What's the consistency? We gotta keep dialing that in.

Seth (25:45.757)
So you want to talk a little bit about what other blends you see coming.

Tyler Ley (25:50.286)
Yeah, so blended cements have been around a long time. Like I said, Iowa has been using them for more than 10 years. they already have fly ash that's blended in with cement. They have got slag that's blended in as well. And sometimes they're both blended in. So blended cements are always interesting because you don't... And this may change, but you don't always know exactly what's in them.

But right now, you don't always know what's exactly in them. They're supposed to guarantee you a certain performance. But the problem is, my friend, is that all of us have a different performance that we have in our heart, that we want. And so they're designed into one performance, and it may not be the exact performance you're wanting as a customer. And again, that's why you're going to have to keep a pulse on it, keep an eye on it. But what this is going to allow us to do is that

we'll be able to use fly ashes that don't necessarily meet specifications that are out there today. And some people might say that those fly ashes are bad. No, no, no, no, no, no, they're not bad. They're not bad. Because a cement company doesn't want to sell you something bad. They don't want to, because they're not going to be in business very long if they do that. Other people are going to find a way to do something better. And so they're going to be including things that are going to lower the carbon footprint of concrete.

with while trying to provide some certain level of performance. Now we need to speak up. We need to speak up. Because if we don't tell them what performance we want, if we don't establish what level of whatever performance matters to us, then we're not gonna get our needs met. Are you following me, Seth?

Seth (27:41.085)
Somewhat. How are we going to do that? How are we going to do that? What do mean? Yeah. Yeah.

Tyler Ley (27:42.99)
Ask me a question. Help me out here, my man.

Well, we can't be quiet. We can't be quiet. We've got to be, we've got to step up and we've got to start establishing test methods that we think are useful. So if we think the float test is useful, why not? And I'm making stuff up here, literally making stuff up on the fly. But why don't we make them require that they run a float test before they send you out a load of cement? They put it on the mill sheet. Okay. I'm scaring some cement people right now. Right.

But my man, like don't they need to provide us some level of performance? Don't they need to provide us some level or don't they need to at least alert you when that performance is gonna change? Does that make sense what I'm saying?

Seth (28:32.261)
Yeah, I'm having a hard time. You're talking about the provider guaranteeing what he's providing the ready mix producer, which I think that's where the disconnect is right now is the cement guy. At least my understanding is delivering something that they, they have a mill certificate for that says this is what it is. And the it's up to the ready mix producer to provide what.

us as contractors or owners of facilities require of the concrete.

Tyler Ley (29:07.106)
Yep, that's right, but does it have to be that way?

Seth (29:10.939)
No, it doesn't. It doesn't have to be that way, but...

Tyler Ley (29:14.754)
Why don't we add something to the mill sheet that just tells them how it's going to affect the workability? Why don't we put something on the mill sheet that tells us something about set time? Okay? Why don't we?

Seth (29:21.778)
Yeah.

Seth (29:29.511)
and required the cement guy to do the same test that the ReadyMix producer will have to do as well, right?

Tyler Ley (29:37.966)
But I mean, don't know who's going to have to do what, right? We're just pontificating here, right? But my point is that if I'm a person selling a product, then I want to make sure that I provide my client with the product, with the information that they need to do their work. But if you don't tell me what you need, then how can I ever know what to provide you?

Seth (29:40.733)
Okay.

Yeah.

Seth (30:06.653)
true. Yeah.

Tyler Ley (30:06.806)
You're with me. So, and they don't want to produce products that people aren't happy with. No one on this planet wants to make a product that the other people aren't happy with. I don't think. If they are, they're in the wrong industry. We don't want them in our industry, if that's the way they are. But they don't necessarily know what to shoot for.

Tyler Ley (30:30.392)
So if we don't tell them, how can they ever know what to give us?

So listen, I'm saying some insane crazy stuff right now because it's a future that we don't know what it's gonna be. But I can all tell you right now that if we don't start measuring more stuff that matters, we're gonna be in trouble. when we made our mill sheet specifications for cement, that was a long time ago, my friend. And we weren't doing near as complicated concrete.

and we weren't doing near as complicated stuff to our cements. And everyone in life benefits from having more information. Don't you agree? As long as it's good information? So I'm not saying I know exactly what that information is, okay? But if we don't start talking about it, if we don't start...

Seth (31:14.131)
Yep. Yeah.

Tyler Ley (31:25.608)
sharing our ideas. If we don't start looking for new ways to improve this and make this better, my friend, it's going to get worse and it's going to get worse in a hurry. And who it's going to get worse for are the people that aren't just middle of the road. Right. They're going to get slammed. Right. And so if you don't start taking care of yourself personally, that's step number one. And then you got to start asking for what you want. And sometimes you don't know what you want until you start measuring yourself.

You're with me. So that's my vision for the future, my friend, is that is gonna become commonplace. All right? And that doesn't mean you can't still make concrete without doing these things. But if you wanna make consistent, you wanna make high quality, you wanna deliver again and again and again to your client, this is the type of stuff that I think we're gonna need to step up with. Because that's what our industry's going towards, right? Differences.

Seth (31:55.825)
Yeah.

Seth (32:23.057)
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, there you go. That's a call for everyone to get their act together. No, just know it makes a whole lot of sense. think, you know, typically on a job, you do the initial mockup and you go out there and say, look, this is what we're going to do. And this is how we're going to do it. And you never back check again until there's a problem. So I think, I think your idea of doing a essentially the float test is a mini mockup in my.

Tyler Ley (32:31.0)
That is scare the crap out of you? What do think?

Tyler Ley (32:47.479)
Right?

Seth (32:52.633)
And so, then your, and then your bag test is you're doing the same thing as the third party guys doing. so yeah, it makes it. Yeah. And you're.

Tyler Ley (32:52.844)
Yes. Boom.

Tyler Ley (33:01.292)
I'm just doing it myself. I just have a little bit of more data myself. You know what mean? And they ask me all the time, how many bags you got in the back of your truck? I don't care, brother. Did I have a good day? Did I head off a problem?

Seth (33:16.145)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're, you're, you're absolutely right. We got to stop relying on others and take control of it ourselves. You know, so. All right. Well, I think that's a good spot then today. Tyler, if folks want to get ahold of you, what's the best way to work with you and support your, your new and your new endeavor that, apparently the DOT and the federal government don't, don't want to help you with.

Tyler Ley (33:17.952)
And I think there's value there, you know what I mean?

Tyler Ley (33:46.422)
Well, if you want to, first of all, if you want to help out with the Portland limestone cement thing that I'm doing or the other blended cement stuff that I'm doing, you probably should go to my website, ConcreteFreaks .com. All right. And then there you can join the mailing list. You can reach out. There's ways to reach out. Let me know that you're interested in that. That would be huge.

Seth (34:02.407)
Yeah.

Tyler Ley (34:14.414)
All right, and if you've got some stuff that you've had problems with, that you have samples of, that would be huge. If you want to support it financially, that would be huge. But can also check me out on my YouTube channel, youtube .com forward slash Tyler Lay, okay, my name. And if you just type in Tyler Concrete YouTube, then I come up. And I've got more than 300 videos on there. I get about...

5 ,000 to 6 ,000 views a day from people all around the world. I get tons of really cool emails and contacts and comments in there about concrete stuff. And baby, I do it because I love concrete. Like, freaking love concrete to my core, all right? And if I can give you a five minute video that's gonna help explain something, that's gonna help you see something different, help you get a new tool, then that's what I'm gonna do is I try to squeeze all the goodness I can.

in like a six to seven minute video and I try to make it fun, try to make it entertaining, try to get it out there. so yeah, check me out. Those are probably the two best ways to get a hold of me.

Seth (35:19.719)
Yeah, I can't, I can't recommend, Tyler's videos, anymore. It's like, those are, they're the greatest. I was just telling them before we hit record, he just has a great way of simplifying, very challenge, you know, the unique challenges that we have in concrete. So appreciate Tyler. and Tyler, thank you for coming on the show once again. And, we'll, get you back on and we'll talk about the next blended concrete, urban cement.

next time so are all right folks until next time let's keep it concrete

Tyler Ley (35:50.382)
Let's do it, baby. Be fun.